Legislature(2001 - 2002)
02/11/2002 03:40 PM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 284-BOARD OF FISHERIES CONFLICTS OF INTEREST [Contains discussion of HB 283] CO-CHAIR STEVENS put before the committee HOUSE BILL NO. 284, "An Act relating to participation in matters before the Board of Fisheries by members of the board; and providing for an effective date." Number 2222 REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI, Sponsor of HB 284, explained that this bill was a companion to [HB 283]. He said regardless of whether HB 283 goes through, it is imperative that this bill move forward. He gave an example of a board member on the Board of Fisheries being "conflicted out" of an issue because he was a charter boat operator. Representative Scalzi said reconsidering the state's boards and commissions would be a good idea because it is counterproductive to excuse those people with the most knowledge and experience in a given area. He said that it is important for a board member to declare any potential conflict of interest, but said that knowledge is lost when those people are "conflicted out." He asked that the bill go through without being amended. Number 2384 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked how this bill would change the Board of Fisheries from other bodies. REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that he did not want to make blanket changes for all of the other boards. He said it was a one-board issue. Number 2438 REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said if a person has a conflict under the current regime and states it, the board could give the member consent to participate. He said the bill is "kind of throwing a check and balance out." REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that the chairman on a board should have the same criteria as the legislature. In the case of an overwhelming conflict, a board member could be excused, but under the current system it is mandatory. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said HB 284 is giving a lot of latitude. REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that the bill gives only the amount of latitude enjoyed by the legislature, the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council, and the International Pacific Halibut Commission. He gave the example of a halibut commission meeting where a member stated a conflict, but was asked to remain and add to the knowledge of the area in question. He spoke of the familial ties in the Bristol Bay area, and said the stringent guidelines could hamstring the board by exempting valuable information and viewpoints. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL made the clarification that members would not be able to participate unless they declared their conflict and were accepted. REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that under the current regime, "if you have a conflict, you're excused - end of sentence." Number 2613 REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked if currently one could be forced to vote despite a conflict. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said there are some circumstances in which that could be the case, but she deferred to Lance Nelson. Number 2647 LANCE NELSON, Assistant Attorney General, Natural Resources Section (Anchorage), Department of Law, testified via teleconference. He said the way the process works with the board is, the members are expected to declare areas where they would have a conflict with the ethics Act [Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act]; the chairman then rules, and the board can then vote - with a majority - to overturn the chairman's ruling. He said the board generally does not require participation if a member declines. The board can also defer to the Department of Law if there is a question. He said board members can always abstain, and they can always participate as members of the public by not sitting at the table or voting. MR. NELSON said the administration opposes the bill. He said that the administration feels the exemption from the ethics Act is too broad. He pointed out the difficulty in applying the ethics Act to some boards and not others. Under this bill, a conflict of interest cannot be considered a violation of the ethics Act, even though a board member could be in a position to use state resources for personal and financial benefit. Mr. Nelson said that under the bill, the member could disclose the conflict on the record, but there is no board vote or other control over actions that would benefit significant interests of the board member. He said board members would no longer be required to disclose potential violations arising from personal or financial interests in writing to the Office of the Attorney General or a designated supervisor. They would just have to declare it on the record. He said officials and members of the public might not know about a potential conflict unless they were attending the meetings. MR. NELSON said, "It is not as much of an issue as it may seem to be." He told the committee that there were no votes by the board where the conflicts would have made a difference in the outcome of the vote, and there is usually only one member conflicted at a time. Other members of the public who are equally as informed as the member can also testify. MR. NELSON said current requirements do not slow the board or make it less informed. He said another concern is that the "purpose" provision says one thing, but the bill appears to do another. He said that the effect of the bill is not clearly what the drafters might have intended. Mr. Nelson told the committee that the purpose says, "Board members are required to participate, even if they have a conflict by virtue of their participation in the fishery." Mr. Nelson said the language of the bill differs from the purpose because it does not require members with a conflict to participate, and also allows board members to have personal and financial interests in matters before the board without any restriction or qualifications. Number 2944 SUE ASPELUND, Cordova District Fisherman United, testified via teleconference. She disagreed with Lance Nelson on the matter of conflict-of-interest issues "bogging down the process." She said she has sat through 22 years of board meetings where valuable information was lost because members were "conflicted out." She said it is unfair to withhold a permit holder's testimony, but not a lodge owner or processor's. TAPE 02-2, SIDE B MS. ASPELUND expressed her organization's support for HB 284. Number 2920 BRUCE SCHACTLER, Fisherman, testified before the committee. He expressed his complete support for the bill, and likened it to a brother or sister of HB 283. He said this bill is one of the many ways to get the fishing industry moving forward again. Mr. Shactler said that the board system is outdated. He said that public testimony is not where the discussion and debate takes place on the Board of Fisheries. He said that an exempted board member's expertise is lost when that member is not allowed to take part in the discussions that occur outside of the public hearings. He said he would like to see the committee move the bill out. He said the fishing industry needs a lot of help, and that help can only come with positive change. Number 2822 JERRY McCUNE, United Fisherman of Alaska, testified before the committee. He said that in his experiences with the board, he had seen processors, lodge owners, and guides not be conflicted out, but commercial fishermen were conflicted out regularly. He characterized the Board of Fisheries as the most powerful regulatory board in the whole state. He said that all the members on the board should be able to vote, as long as they disclose any potential conflict. Number 2730 CHERYL SUTTON, Commercial Fisherman, testified before the committee. She said that any decision she makes for her business depends on the decisions of the board. She said that the board has been given authority by the legislature to govern a multibillion-dollar industry, and it is a big responsibility. MS. SUTTON said that those members who may be commercial fishermen, and who bring with them a certain amount of expertise, should not be excluded. She said permits and vessels are tangible assets. She said, "Declare them; participate; vote. Name your relatives, name your associations.... People can connect dots." She said what troubles her more are the conflicts that arise where there are no tangible assets. Ms. Sutton said in these cases, bias and prejudice are what the board is forced to operate on. Number 2618 MS. SUTTON said the administration professes that the board members are not elected officials and should not be held to the same standard. She added that the legislature has delegated a portion of its authority; therefore, the board has a larger responsibility than others in the state. She asked the committee "why would we want to conflict out folks who have expertise, when it is very important to formulating sound regulations." She urged the committee to support the bill along with HB 283. Number 2562 REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that HB 284 was a companion bill to HB 283, and asked that the committee should also hold it for consideration. He said he wanted more dialogue with the administration. He said that the testimony concurred that the bill is the direction that commercial fishing has to go. He said fishermen must rationalize their industry with the most expertise available. Representative Scalzi said he hates to see personal attacks on the issue. He said there is a need for consideration of a more broad representation for the industry. He asked that the bill be held. [HB 284 was held.]
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